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support202
r0x 
Latale Romeo Joined: Oct 22 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 855 |
   Topic: Kill Stealing and HarassmentPosted: Nov 15 2008 at 6:50pm |
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There have been quite a few questions about how OGP deals with Kill Stealing and/or Harassment in general. Now I have to make it clear that harassment between players is not acceptable in any way. Kill Stealing is not against the rules directly, however if the person having their kill stolen feels wronged in a great way this may lead to a level of harassment that is against the rules. What is Harassment? If someone is doing something to emotionally harm you, such as calling you names, following you around, or kill stealing you this is harassment. It doesn't have to be anything extreme, it can be something as simple as someone constantly asking you for Ely or items. What do I do if I'm being harassed? Tell them to stop, and take screen shots. If you can provide evidence that proves that someone has been following you around, Kill Stealing you and harassing you in general we will take action. Step 1: Take lots of screen shots Step 2: Contact the help desk and send in the screen shots Step 3: Change Channel What would cause the GM's to think I was harassing someone? If you feel that it is ok to try and force others out of an area you wish to farm in, you are probably going to end up harassing someone, and possibly you will lose your account. You may even think that what you are doing is a joke, but the target of your jokes may think its harassment. If they do and report it with evidence we will take action.
Bottom Line
We are blessed to have such an excellent community here in Latale. Most everyone gets along with everyone else and there are lots of people willing to help. Let’s try and keep our community the way it is.
Please Note: If you feel you have been wrongfully banned contact the help desk. Do NOT post in this thread. Thank you.
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Hakutsuru
Commander 
Joined: Aug 03 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 939 |
Posted: Nov 15 2008 at 6:58pm |
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Awesome thread, keep up the good work 202~ :P
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<3 Matty + Hannah <3 ♪ Hakutsuru ~ Lv. 156 Gunslinger ~ Legacy [GM] ♪ |
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Tork_angegh
Commander
Joined: Aug 30 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 500 |
Posted: Nov 15 2008 at 7:08pm |
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woot but it sounds like a bit of work and i am a extremely lazy person
is there anyway that someone on the dev team can program a hotkey (maybe a F# key?) so that we can take a screenshot and it will be sent to the help desk(and also be saved on players computer)? |
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TorkAngegh - 11x warr
RobotsAndBirds - 4x engi Ishkir - 4x fire/earth/dag mage |
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Hakutsuru
Commander
Joined: Aug 03 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 939 |
Posted: Nov 15 2008 at 7:17pm |
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Step 1 - Press "Print Screen" to take a screenshot in-game, all your screenshots will automatically be saved to the screenshot folder in your main La Tale folder. Step 2 - Log in into La Tale's official website and make an Help Desk submission, choose "In Game Issues" and a box should appear "Attach file", just upload your screenshot in there and you're done~  ... But yeah I agree with you, an in-game report feature would be awesome. |
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<3 Matty + Hannah <3 ♪ Hakutsuru ~ Lv. 156 Gunslinger ~ Legacy [GM] ♪ |
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support202
r0x
Latale Romeo Joined: Oct 22 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 855 |
Posted: Nov 15 2008 at 7:26pm |
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Hmm in game button to send screen shots...
300 Screen shots a day O_O;
I think I need lunch.
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Freezezzy
Ensign
Joined: Apr 03 2007 Online Status: Offline Posts: 245 |
Posted: Nov 15 2008 at 10:05pm |
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Yeah, that may be a bit much. How about just adding a few extra slots for attaching pics with reports? Even 5 slots would be nice.
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redundant (re-dun'-dant) a., too wordy,
repetitious, -dance n., -dancy see redundant 
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maestro4k
Commander
Joined: Apr 03 2007 Online Status: Offline Posts: 984 |
Posted: Nov 15 2008 at 10:24pm |
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Definitely, I often end up submitting multiple tickets to report spammers because I have 2-3 screenshots I need to send (one for each spammer). I'd love to be able to attach more than one image to a ticket.  |
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support202
r0x
Latale Romeo Joined: Oct 22 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 855 |
Posted: Nov 15 2008 at 10:35pm |
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Thats a good suggestion (more slots).
I'll pass it up.
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Teddyz
Commander
Joined: Oct 28 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 852 |
Posted: Nov 15 2008 at 11:26pm |
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Thank You~! to the GM's for making this thread and everything else ^_~
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HawkBlade
Space Cadet
Joined: Sep 29 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 66 |
Posted: Nov 16 2008 at 8:10am |
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I wonder how long they will be banned for....permanent ban seems a bit too extreme =P
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Dagtroa
Captain
Joined: Mar 01 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1018 |
Posted: Nov 16 2008 at 8:23am |
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awww if only this thread existed 2 months ago...
 Well at least now people that are constantly telling others to change channels or kill stealing on purpose when they don't change channels, will get in trouble  |
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BB tanks IGN: Dagtroa RF IGN: ......? |
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support202
r0x
Latale Romeo Joined: Oct 22 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 855 |
Posted: Nov 16 2008 at 3:40pm |
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Edited by support202 - Nov 16 2008 at 3:41pm |
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kinosuke
Commander
Joined: Aug 24 2007 Online Status: Offline Posts: 538 |
Posted: Nov 16 2008 at 4:40pm |
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What if someone got wrongfully banned? (for two weeks -.-)
Can I press counter charges? |
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support202
r0x
Latale Romeo Joined: Oct 22 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 855 |
Posted: Nov 16 2008 at 5:12pm |
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alyn
Cadet
Joined: Sep 02 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 5 |
Posted: Nov 16 2008 at 7:32pm |
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Thank you for posting this!
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FruityPirate
Space Cadet
Joined: Sep 03 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 88 |
Posted: Nov 21 2008 at 5:29pm |
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support202, I have been wrongly accused before and I sent a notice to Help Desk. Am I supposed to be e-mailed of my innocence or is it done without my notice?
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La Tale IGN: Nintendo, Crossbow Treasure Hunter (Needle Shower Tree)
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support202
r0x
Latale Romeo Joined: Oct 22 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 855 |
Posted: Nov 21 2008 at 5:52pm |
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HeartCard
Lieutenant
Joined: Sep 27 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 271 |
Posted: Nov 28 2008 at 10:09am |
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...Isn't this...pretty...stupid?
I don't ks people just to troll them, unless they do so to me. In which case it's an unspoken contest, and normally ends up with us laughing at each other. One of my good friends actually started this way.
Huge KS fest. Afterwards we sat down and talked and decided
"lol we fail." My point is,
KSing people is one way to play the game. For alot of people it's fun.
If someone is harassing you,
I would say just ignore them or change channel. Not that hard really.
The only time KSing would really be a problem is if you cannot change channel.
When does this happen? Instance Dungeons...One. Party. At a time.
I am completely against this idea, even if it does not directly affect me.
The only thing I'm considering is people who are going to report me for KSing/"harassing them"(via KSing) when I was there first.
I've gotten those threats ALOT. I didn't think anything of it because...well this topic wasn't here.
And what defines "KS"ing? What if that's your quest?
Everytime my LV31-34 goes throw slaying silkworms, psyches, Gold Beetle G, or Jack-O-Lanterns, people act like I do it only to troll them/ks them. When, according to my way I go through the game, that is my current quest.
And often, these screenshots MIGHT work against me. Because I ignore the people crying about me "KSing" them.
Can I atleast request that KS reports should not be applied for Channel 1?
The channel is too popular for something like this, I think.
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support202
r0x
Latale Romeo Joined: Oct 22 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 855 |
Posted: Nov 28 2008 at 6:34pm |
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Please try and remember HeartCard, that your idea of what KS is, or what Harassment is, may not be the same as everyone else’s. Like I said, you may think it's just a joke, or just for fun, while everyone else does not. |
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Hakutsuru
Commander
Joined: Aug 03 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 939 |
Posted: Nov 29 2008 at 3:46pm |
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I'm level 96 and not once did I KS anyone, if I ever did it was by mistake, I apologized and changed channel immediatly. About those low level quests, when I was doing them I ALWAYS asked the people training on those maps if we could share, if someone was against i'd just try to find an open channel or go ask another person if they mind sharing. KS is really unnecessary and is a waste of time for both the person training on the map and the KSer. ... Like right now I was being followed around by a guy on every channel, KSing me for the hell of it, had to log out for a bit because it seems like the GMs won't do anything about it. (At least not tonight it seems.) EDIT: I do believe GMs have a log with timestamps of every channels and can easily tell who was in that map first. Edited by Hakutsuru - Nov 29 2008 at 3:49pm |
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<3 Matty + Hannah <3 ♪ Hakutsuru ~ Lv. 156 Gunslinger ~ Legacy [GM] ♪ |
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maestro4k
Commander
Joined: Apr 03 2007 Online Status: Offline Posts: 984 |
Posted: Nov 30 2008 at 11:06pm |
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It's going to be pretty easy to know when it's not fun for the other person. They'll ask you to stop or get mad. If they do that and you continue to KS them, it's a pretty clear-cut case of harassment. While you may think it's fun, most people don't. God knows there's been enough threads complaining about it since launch. I'd say you are firmly in the minority.
Sometimes all the channels are full, so you have to share a channel with someone. If everyone insists on KSing then it's not going to be fun for anyone. And yes, this indeed happens, try sharing a map with the tigers without being polite. There'll be a LOT of frayed nerves and unhappiness. So no, it's not just the instance dungeons.
Just because you were first on a map doesn't mean you can't KS someone else. If someone's already started killing a mob and you run in and kill it, you KS'd them. Doesn't matter if you were on the map first, what matters is who attacks first. If they report you and you didn't do anything wrong you'll get a chance to present your side of things to support. If they have screenshots of you mouthing off to themm you're pretty much screwed, so keep calm and ignore those who threaten you falsely. If they continue to threaten you and you aren't doing anything wrong, well report the whole situation to support yourself and let them deal with it.
Having a quest doesn't mean you get to kill other people's mobs, use your head here. If someone else has already started killing it, if you run in and finish it, you stole their kill. Now the only places this gets a bit less clear-cut is with mini-bosses like the Goblin King, Selki, etc., that only spawn once every so many minutes. But all the stuff you mentioned have plenty of mobs to go around.
To be quite honest it sounds like you've been KSing people like mad because you feel like your having a quest gives you free reign to kill anyone's mobs. So yeah, this is targeted at you and others like you. I had someone KSing my explorer yesterday that caused me to get the B reward on a time-trial quest. That definitely spoiled my enjoyment of the game, and I'm quite certain it would you as well. I'd say you should definitely stop ignoring those cries. The fact that you seem to get them so often should tell you something. And if you're worried about this on channel 1, don't play on channel 1. A lot of people play only on channel 1 cause they're kinda clueless that they can switch. Making this not apply to channel 1 would impact a lot of people who need the protection the most. |
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PiMpStAnLeY
Space Cadet
Joined: Apr 04 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 89 |
Posted: Dec 02 2008 at 1:13pm |
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nah this is a 24 hour 7 day a week thing in maplestory some of the highest lvl grinding spots is under massive killsteal wars and not once has any of them gotten banned for harrassment i dont think its directly related to killstealing its more about directly bothering an individual to the point where its harrassment
no offense but with that bow? u couldnt ks anyone even if u wanted to |
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11x xbow ~ quit
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HeartCard
Lieutenant
Joined: Sep 27 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 271 |
Posted: Dec 03 2008 at 3:51am |
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Urgh I lost my whole lengthy post. Oh well.
Right then, I'll be addressing this one at a time. With a conclusion at the bottom:
@support202(I didn't even have to look this time!):
That's all fine and good, however...You're rather bluntly ignoring my question.
You say my idea of KSing may not be someone else's. That's fine.
Here's the thing, I asked for What you define as "KS"ing.
You. The People who are going to be dealing with(or dealing with the people who deal with) these reports.
What do You/They consider to be "KS"ing. Please, tell me. Enlighten me on the definition.
You cannot expect people to follow the rules if the rules were never posted, right?
That's the point of this topic, right? To show that action will be taken? That the is a rule against this?
Well, give me the rule on KSing. What rules something as KSing?
I await your reply.
@hakutsuru(Still haven't had to relook yet, woot):
1. Making sure you do not KS someone is a choice. An choice as equally inconvient as some view being KSed to be.
2. Not everyone is willing to share. And more often than not, rather than "Sharing", why don't you just PARTY with someone? That solves the proble completely.
3. Playing an online game that in no way directly supports or benefits your life in "reality" is actually techniqually unnessessary and a waste of time and atleast as much so as intentional KSing. You really wanna get into this arguemenet?
4. If GMs do have such timestamps, then my worries might be needless as those will normally benefit me.
@maestor4k(Ahah! Three in a row!):
0. Take in kind. The generality of your statement can be replied with "Please, try reading again. No no, with glasses this time...Yes...Sunglasses..That'll fix everything". So if you feel flamed...Well that's your problem as it was not intentional.
1. You seemed to miss that point that, according to my statements, I was not actually KSing them and their obnoxious whining was not really my fault as they were basically the ones trying to KS Me. So why should they care if they're getting mad when I have not done anything wrong?
2. Pretty sure that there is ALWAYS a channel open for you to farm alone. And Tigers? Horrid example in my opinion. I never SAW anyone when I went hunting for tigers on my first character. Secound character there were atleast three channels empty for me to solo. I've seen that that(repeated word, yet not grammarically incorrect, I am aware of the hypocrisy) is the case for anything related to a quest.
3. This time I cannot blame your misunderstand. It is my own fault for how I was using the bunny-ears all throughout my post. Normally I use "word" to emphasize sarcasm and 'word' to merely quote. Allow me to rephrase that statement you lastly quoted:
"Because I ignore people who Falsey accuse me of KSing"
4.
Ummm...There's this cute button in the Quests menu. Called "Abandon". Yeah...If you're a time trial...And you don't think you did it fast enough, try that cute little button for a secound chance.
If your enjoyment of the game is spoiled merely by getting a Secound-rate prize from a quest...well...That's like going through the whole invoke dungeon, not coming out with 2h sword, and being mopey about it. Seems pretty...stupid in my opinion. Just DO IT AGAIN.
5. I don't really "hear those cries" as often as you seem to imagine. I hear one such instance every five or six levels. Noteable I don't seem to get them once I top lv40. Though I imagine I'll hear one in the next day or two when I go through my Selki Leather quest...If I don't change channel after she's dead before they say anything.
And I ignore them because they're all BLATANTLY untrue. Albeit there might be one(keywords: Might and One) instance where I was ACTUALLY at fault. Doubt it, but sure why not?
6. "If you don't like it, stay off channel 1". Sounds alot like "If you don't wanna be KSed, change channel". Ain't that a coincidence?
@...(Curses! Had to look! T_T)PimpStanley:
1. Nexon's helpdesk is about as helpful as Jagex's...Seriously.Even if they had something like this, I doubt it would be of much effect.
2. lol
In Closing:
Two closing thoughts:
1stly: PLEASE look far more lightly on any of these reports about KSing a mini-boss. Selki, Goblin Warlord, GobleGoble, etc. Seriously...I don't think that's fair at all.
2ndly: Not a request, nor a recommendation. Just a personal view.
Let's be clear, I do not Condone Kill Stealing.
But I do condone the Right to Kill Steal.
In my opinion, it is one way to play the game.
If someone finds fun and amusement in stealing my kills and chasing me around, so be it. Let them have that fun.
Especially when that fun ends the moment I change channel(Unless they wanna go hunting through all seven channels for me. Which I highly doubt).
I believe that as it is my right to waste my time playing an online game as intended that so is it their right to waste their time playing an online game in a way it was not intended.
Of course, that is the essence of Equality and Freedom. You are free to do both Good, and bad. And Equality would mean punishing neither for doing so.
The only other clarification I feel needed is that Henceforth:
You will Never see me filing a report for "Kill Stealing". Ever.
Likewise you will never see me On a report for "Kill Stealing". Ever.
And I would love it ever so if there was anyone else like myself who would follow such a motto. Or atleast simply not report when they are KSed...Nor whine about it later. >_>
Oh, and if you feel like replying to me, that's fine. But before it even happens:
Please, do not reply to me with a charade and extensive rant about Valor or Civility.
Our views are different, it is quite that simple. My view on this subject cannot change unless my entire view of life does.
Support202, I AM still waiting on your response.
I still require a concrete definition of what is "KSing", if you would be so kind.
That is all. |
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support202
r0x
Latale Romeo Joined: Oct 22 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 855 |
Posted: Dec 03 2008 at 4:31pm |
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Kill Stealing is the practice of stealing the rewards from defeating an enemy from other player(s). Kill Stealing is NOT against the rules. However if the victim of this Kill Stealing feels a level of grief then the act of Kill Stealing could result in a level of Harassment, which IS against the rules. This post was intended to spur people who are being harassed into filing reports, however, these reports have yet to manifest them selves. In other words, no one is reporting anyone else. We will and do take action if harassment is reported but most of the time, no one files said reports. You can Kill Steal all you want, but if you get reported for harassment as a result of this Kill Stealing you may lose your account.
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IrisRevol
Ensign
Joined: Dec 05 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 212 |
Posted: Dec 09 2008 at 12:24am |
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support202,
I'm not trying to act smart or anything, and I recognize and appreciate every effort from the staff to make the LaTale Community a better place for everyone. However I do see some problems in the method. First of all, how can the Help Desk staff tell who is KSing (or harassing) who just by looking at the screenshot? The one sending in the report might as well be the actual KSer/Harasser. The above leads to the next point. People with malicious intents could "forge" harassment scenarios and KSing screenshots, leading to the banishment of other people. I do believe that the OGP team prefers a mature and well thought procedure toward handling in-game Harassment, and perhaps there's no need for me to worry at all. I'm not trying to waste your time by asking for explanations, but just in case someone missed some little details, as a member of the same Community, it is indeed our responsibility to point it out. Regards, IrisRevol |
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